You Don't Get What You Pay For – It's Not a Tiny House Podcast

Wyatt: [00:00:38] Welcome back to This Is Not a Tiny House podcast, because this is a podcast about alternative housing that focuses on other avenues and other paths, and today is going to be no exception to that, where we're talking about some of the issues as we get into it, that we've seen experienced people or complaints thereof of tiny homes. But but first and foremost, Barna had a date yesterday. They went to look at tarantula's.

Barna: [00:01:03] Yeah, for Erin's birthday, went to go look at the annual tarantula migration.

Wyatt: [00:01:09] For those of you who are like, what kind of sick people are these? I'm with you.

Barna: [00:01:12] I was there to hold the camera. Man.

Wyatt: [00:01:15] I'm not after some hairy spiders, man.

Barna: [00:01:17] I am the one who didn't have the spider crawl on him in Guatemala, right.Erin was the one line, put it on my head. Like, not me. I'm like, yeah, touched it. That was it.

Wyatt: [00:01:27] I see a tarantula. I mean, we're going bang bang.Oh, things are happening.

Barna: [00:01:31] I was there to take pictures of tarantulas, Erin was there to lay in the road and have them crawl over her.

Wyatt: [00:01:37] Sadly.

Barna: [00:01:37] Yes.

Wyatt: [00:01:38] For her.

Barna: [00:01:39] We didn't get tarantulas. We got nothing. And even the local people are like the tarantu-whats? There's a migration? Is it over? I don't think so.

Wyatt: [00:01:50] These hairy little bastards..

Barna: [00:01:51] I haven't seen any is what they said.

Wyatt: [00:01:52] ..go crawling all over hell's half acre when they migrate. And I've heard about this

Barna: [00:01:55] Its for mating.

Wyatt: [00:01:56] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean all in the name of, of spawn. Right. Or whatever. But so apparently, and I'm not from the area here so I had never heard this, Brianna was telling me about this one point. She's like, yeah. Like I had to drive over some of my car because at one point it had come through closer to our area. And I guess.

Barna: [00:02:11] A couple of years ago I saw one on McKenzie.

Wyatt: [00:02:13] I guess. Like climbing over themselves, kind of like just going. They're beautiful.

Barna: [00:02:18] I don't know.

Wyatt: [00:02:19] They're they're cool.

Wyatt: [00:02:20] They're so fuzzy.

Barna: [00:02:21] They're as useful as is probably more useful than humans and intents and purposes.

Wyatt: [00:02:25] Before I moved here I would never kill spider because I hated mosquitoes and flies way more than spiders. Right. So then I moved here were spiders outnumber every other living creature like ten to one, probably because my house is covered, store, covered, rentals, covered with spider webs all the time.

Wyatt: [00:02:46] I got no hate in my heart, but I'm not a spider guy. So you went there. There were no tarantulas. You didn't get what you.

Barna: [00:02:52] Drove two and a half hours there, two and a half hours back.

Wyatt: [00:02:56] So now this is how it goes. You didn't get what you paid for. And back to the tiny house concepts for housing in general. This happens all the time. You didn't get what you paid for. You overpaid for a tiny house that was built 70, 80, 90, 100 years ago. He has no what happened 100 years ago or 90 years ago. We're sitting in the Great Depression. Some of those homes and their quality construction is not quite there. But anyway, he didn't get what you paid for. And that's kind of the moral of where we were going to start this one from with your little story. Right. And now..

Barna: [00:03:28] Wait, how did I not get what I paid for?

Wyatt: [00:03:30] You went there for spiders, but you got no spiders.

Barna: [00:03:32] Oh, no, not spiders, but like housing. You're not getting what you pay for. Right. So you're not getting just because of fifty thousand dollar house is two hundred fifty thousand dollars. Are you telling me there wasn't an extra two hundred thousand dollars of value.

Wyatt: [00:03:44] Yes.

Barna: [00:03:44] Added to that house in the last five years?

Wyatt: [00:03:46] That's what I'm telling you.

Barna: [00:03:47] Why? I mean but the value is there just because time went by.

Wyatt: [00:03:54] And then. And the news is news. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Barna: [00:03:57] They who totally put in at least one hundred grand, you know, because I like to double my money on stuff in general, you know. So I'm going to go buy the house for, you know, fifty, put seventy five in it to fifty. So I have one hundred, twenty five minutes overdue. I doubled my money. Nobody put seventy five thousand dollars $50,000 house.

Wyatt: [00:04:17] That's a Cardone thing. Grant Cardone. If you're not, if you're not selling you're being sold. Well if you can look through the history of a property and all of a sudden there are massive hikes in prices and short amount of time, you're not getting what you're paying for it. And I'm telling you that from a carpenter, as a contractor, as a guy who's been inside of flip's and seen people lipstick pigs and make silk purses out of sows ears. Yeah.

Barna: [00:04:41] The data in there real quick and and the link in our show notes and how you can find it for your area is usually the county has an assessor or appraisers website that has also like a GIS where you can look up your geographic information systems, not global information system. There's there's other definitions of GIS depending on on what field you're in. But anyway, you can look it up and see how many permits were pulled officially for that property. So if there's somebody in town bought their house for one hundred twenty five thousand dollars, now, it's were three hundred.

Wyatt: [00:05:18] Two years ago.

Barna: [00:05:18] And there were zero, zero permits pulled, then there was no major construction or they just, you know, did it on their own. So there you do get what they paid for. Right, depending on the quality of the workmanship of the homeowner.

Wyatt: [00:05:33] The bones. Right. And so that's one of the things. Right. What we're talking about is making sure that you get what you pay for. Right. So we've talked about it in the last several podcasts. What what what is it that we're building? What is it that makes it different? Right. And we're going to talk about it now. We're going to talk about the structure of our particular units that we're bringing into the marketplace. We're going to talk about the design, the WHY they exist. And how that kind of benefits and is a difference to current things in the marketplace, right. And so we're going to start with structure. How is it built? Well, inside of a smaller house. This isn't going to be unbelievable for you guys to understand, I assume, inside of a smaller house, it's easier to control structure. Right, because you don't have large spans and massive roofs and things like that on top of them with all that extra weight. So your structural component is much easier to accomplish. Right. And so what I did in mine, I'll talk about the first one that that is. And then Barney's going to tell you a little bit more about his.

Barna: [00:06:40] Start with what it's based on and why.

Wyatt: [00:06:41] It's based on using a standard cargo shipping container as it's essentially as its foundation reasons being, it's a super strong structure to start with. It's readily available and it's cost effective. You can't replicate that structure and that building with siding with paint, with everything done and ready to go for anywhere near that amount of money. Just that's not a thing. Right. So what I did initially was took a very small footprint, kind of like a tiny house or traditional, almost like a big, good size RV and put it on top of a shipping container. And then I made it fully off grid capable, as well, just in case that I think appeals to a number of different customers. But also it was because do the hard work first, because putting it on grid is actually a hell of a lot easier than doing it all off grid. The difference is for for us here, you have the added benefits of storage because for me anyway, I needed a place to put tools, but for somebody else, they could have a host of things they want to store down there. And then you don't need to necessarily climate control a lot of those items when you're upstairs in a comfy, cozy second story, almost like a loft apartment with all of your personal belongings that don't need climate controlled sitting underneath you in something that's actually secure structural holding you up inside. So that was the that was the initial thing. We'll talk about how how those structures are recycled, how those are second use, how they can be reused, how that was designed to come apart and pack inside, how it was constructed. Like in general, all of that stuff matters to the structure, but also it's small and it's built like a regular house in framing. So it's it's overbuilt. The spans are nowhere near reach to their maximum capabilities that you find in many standard housing. So that's the second story unit of the shipping container. Anything that I need to add that I need to throw in before you talk about the single.

Barna: [00:08:39] And also besides, so where is it lacking in meeting code requirements? Because we've talked a lot about code and zoning and all that. So the only thing is right now, square footage, the only because traditional building methods and radiuses and hallways and whatever hallways those are met.

Wyatt: [00:09:02] Yep. Yeah, yeah. So, so inside of a home, it's important to, to. Yeah. Thanks for your kind of course correcting me on that. Right. Like you have to have certain size of openings, you have to have bathrooms that aren't opening into kitchens. You have to have if you can believe this one closet is part of a code requirement. Define closet for me real quick. And if you can do that, I'll Venmo you five bucks. I mean, you can, but it's ridiculous. So. Well, I think the question was driving us back towards the only thing that a small structure doesn't currently meet for requirement is the square footage. The rest of the design work can be accomplished.

Barna: [00:09:38] You can meet all the other requirements. So I was going to bring this up on another podcast, but I think I'll throw it in here. So was it, Walsenburg. Walsenburg in Colorado passed a tiny house code. It took a while. It's, I guess, ordinance or whatever that they passed. So it's short. It's ten pages. All it does is modify the existing code that is in force there. It adds a definition for tiny house that allows for I think it goes between 150 fifty and whatever, couple, like three, four hundred square feet. So it limits that size or it includes that size because no other code allows that. But then they went through and deleted or said that these other sections do not apply and that's page one or two. And the next eight pages is nothing but repeating that tiny house definition that they needed to insert in other sections. So really, the only things that are typical on wheels, tiny house, if you won't allow it, besides just parking in RV park is are things like hallway, entry door size, whatever, our designs meet all those requirements.

Wyatt: [00:10:46] And the biggest one there, two like safety that we talked about, egress, like if it, you know, lights on fire, you have to be able to get out from multiple points. The furthest in the current design. You can be from an exit point. And this would be if there were no windows in it, which there are plenty, the furthest you could be with no windows is 12 feet from a door that you can get out of front and back. But with all the windows and everything. And I don't think you can be more than five feet from a door. So if somebody likes to cop up and say, well, minimum square footage is are a safety requirement or safety distinction, I'd say it's really hard to get out of a bigger house than it is a smaller one if you put plenty of egress opportunities in it. So, you know, there is that, too.

Barna: [00:11:29] Yeah. Could you imagine a fire department coming to your place to search it? One, you would already be outside waiting. Yeah. You know, like, well, you look in the side window like, well, we saw the whole place. It's cool. Nobody in their right. Right.

Wyatt: [00:11:41] That's not how it works.

Barna: [00:11:44] Or you or you go into a two three story downtown brick building. You're searching that.

Wyatt: [00:11:48] Front and back, top down.

Barna: [00:11:49] 30, 40 minutes. Yeah, it's a mess.

Wyatt: [00:11:52] This is a super safe. It's super accessible from from a Yeah. Like you say, like a fire department's got to come in and clear a building. They can they could do it here in a walk through that. Can't take more than 30 seconds. Like if they could find a way to fuck around in there longer than 30 seconds, I'd say that your guy, you know, is lost like literally on planet Earth, not not inside of a hallway house. Right. So super safe. Yeah, you're right. So but yeah, when you talk about code, we talk about things like insulation. You get you got electrical, you got plumbing, you got all this other stuff. No, man, it's met. So we took that tiny house in like a oh, you want to live smaller and less expensively and you know, like you hear me rant clean, cool, heat less. Yeah. Less money. You guys like if we need to dramatically reduce the amount of things that we are consuming power being one of them, which generally in the United States right now anyway is coal, natural gas. These are fossil fuels that are burning to create your electricity, which is another conversation that we'll get into if you want to consume less of that. It's really a lot more comparable in a small structure that's highly efficient.

Barna: [00:13:02] So that was one of the other products I was listening to in the book I was reading is that any structure in downtown New York, New York City, is more efficient because there is more efficient than any suburb in America.

Wyatt: [00:13:17] Yeah, because they are using the same heat as it goes through all layers, right?

Barna: [00:13:20] Heating, cooling,

Wyatt: [00:13:22] Ambient heating and cooling.

Barna: [00:13:22] Everything. All of it.

Wyatt: [00:13:24] Or if well, like resistance to change. Right. That goes in two different directions. Right. So heat from heat and cool. So if you're surrounded constantly with buffer zones of other climate controlled areas, let's say you have like a center unit, I would venture to guess you'd never have to do anything.

Barna: [00:13:40] Apartment complex. I'll take the middle unit. Yeah.

Wyatt: [00:13:42] I then turn a fan on the move the air. Right. Like so so you have to understand that from a logical standpoint, smaller structures that consume less energy, not only are they desirable, these are spread out a little bit. So they're safer. But also we're going to talk real quick about this. In the last six months, building materials have more than doubled in price. And if labor costs aren't going to go down because we still have to have people with a living wage, when you build a structure, there are material costs and there are labor costs. And if the labor costs don't move because I don't believe that they should, you're still offering, you know, quality housing and the cost of materials go up. That means you have to have less materials, which means the square footage goes down. Like this is an algebraic equation that is super basic that we could teach to, I'm going to say anybody, but according to the last meeting, nobody over the age of I'm just going to say X because we got it. But it seemed like it fell on deaf ears, maybe because it wasn't part of the want. It's not really the point like this is basic logic and mathematics in a very simple equation.

Barna: [00:14:48] But here's here's the best part, right? So people talk about price per square foot. I had a realtor that that's all she care about. Oh, I'm not paying that because it's too much per square foot. There's no comps for that here.

Wyatt: [00:15:01] But how many square feet is it?

Barna: [00:15:01] Yeah. So there you go. It's a million it's a million square feet.

Wyatt: [00:15:05] It doesn't matter if it is a dollar a square foot at that point because it is a million fucking dollar house.

Barna: [00:15:07] But yeah, exactly. So what we're talking about is we're not actually ruining property values because our price per square foot to build it and to then sell it is going to be as high, if not higher. The difference is you're paying for all the premium things that you need in a house, plumbing, electrical, cooking, furnace. The mechanicals are the expensive part, you're not paying for three extra rooms that you will under or not utilize at all. You're paying for the things you need, not something that the builder needs you to buy. Right. And then make it profitable.

Wyatt: [00:15:52] Profitable because you got to consider. Right. Like think of think of your kitchen and how many appliances and fixtures and work goes into that versus think of your bedroom and they got to put in, you know, a light fixture, and some...

Barna: [00:16:04] Three outlets.

Wyatt: [00:16:06] ..outlets. Like the cost to build a bedroom is dramatically lower than the cost to do a kitchen. Right. And so when we're talking about selling a unit that has a kitchen in it and absorbed inside that cost is the cost of that bedroom because it's like, well, this is super cheap to do. And a bathroom is the other one that has the most expensive it. You're getting both of those. But we actually designed this stuff so you can add on bedrooms if you chose to. And they're not going to cost as much as the initial unit because they don't have those, they don't have those components in them again, so it's not like to double the square footage of a house that small, you're going to spend double the money because you already have the the big the big heavy lifting shit like a furnace and stove and range and and water brought in. And all of those things like you have to understand that a room is not a room, they're different.

Barna: [00:16:54] So to recap, you have a design that is utilizing the shipping container for mechanicals and then you have a ton of space left over for storage or business or whatever else.

Wyatt: [00:17:05] CrossFit gym, Esty shop, whatever you want.

Barna: [00:17:05] And that's the shipping container. And then you have a structure on top that has all your needs and requirements, but it is also modular and scalable. So if you want to add a bedroom. So that's the recap of all that. So, you know, we're we're talking about stairs are on the outside on engineer engineer brackets that hold a billion pounds.

Wyatt: [00:17:28] Yeah. Like, yeah, it's stupid how strong those things. Actually, I'm looking at a couple right now. If you guys see the video there, I use them for everywhere I can, you know, from workbenches to to staircases to storage inside the container itself. So shelving. Yeah. So yeah. What you're saying is the way that it uses the base, the base ground level is where all your mechanicals live. Essentially. You live on top.

Barna: [00:17:52] If you're doing the off grid or even if you're not the. But that allows you to go fully off grid. So now it's off grid or on grid living, working environment storage. And the reason for that was there was an article I found, I think it was one of those click bait articles I saw somewhere where like top ten things you wish you knew before you bought a typical tiny house. And the top two things was what, stuff, we've already covered, code, zoning, all the other stuff.

Wyatt: [00:18:22] Storage.

Barna: [00:18:23] And number two, storage.

Wyatt: [00:18:25] So it's not a user, it's not always user friendly for people coming from a traditional home to a small home because they're like, well, now where do I put all my shit?

Barna: [00:18:33] Well, you, don't have shit.

Wyatt: [00:18:35] You don't have shit or you don't. A lot of people aren't capable of that mentally just yet to let it go. So it goes to a shipping or goes to a storage facility or whatever. How about we just take that out of the equation? You own it. And that was that was the.

Barna: [00:18:47] Talk about another multibillion dollar industry, is storage.

Wyatt: [00:18:51] Stuff is sitting in of containers in a box. Yeah.

Barna: [00:18:54] Yeah. And not temporary, long term.

Wyatt: [00:18:56] You are not even looking at it. Yeah. You're not even looking at it. They made it cheap enough because they're they don't have to heat it and cool it and clean it and do shit to it. They made it cheap enough for you to buy it. Well to rent it.

Barna: [00:19:07] OK, so the other part about that is it's not that cheap. So it's typically the average per square foot is a dollar twenty seven. I think it was there was a nationwide statistic I read about six, seven years ago. That's the nationwide average. Now here in smaller town, it's fifty cents a square foot, but that's what you rent a commercial space for in downtown Florence. So if you want a three thousand square foot commercial space, it's fifty cents a square foot or it was a couple of years ago. Housing, it's above a dollar per square foot. But the fact that your storage can be more expensive than your house is.

Wyatt: [00:19:54] Bananas.

Barna: [00:19:55] ..a fact...

Wyatt: [00:19:55] And it's crazy.

Barna: [00:19:56] ..in several cities. So when I lived in Denver, I was renting out the apartments for about a dollar a square foot. But in Denver, storage was a dollar twenty five square foot.

Wyatt: [00:20:09] Your stuff is costing you more than.

Barna: [00:20:10] Your stuff is costing more than your life, heating and cooling and living in a safe space.

Wyatt: [00:20:17] It's insanity to me. But so, so and that that drives us around. So we've got another version and you've got a different, a different style of yes,

Barna: [00:20:25] I want for the most, more, traditional. This is a like I don't have an invention in mine like like yours. I would never win to pitch competition with mine.

Wyatt: [00:20:34] But there's one other thing before I let you do that. The other last trick to that pony is that you can disassemble the entire house.

Barna: [00:20:41] I thought you weren't giving that away yet.

Wyatt: [00:20:42] I'm going to do that one. You can I'm going to do that one. You can take the whole house apart. You can put it inside that same shipping container with all your your precious shit. You can pick it up and you can ship it anywhere you'd like to. So so you have this concept of a house that comes in a box, but you get to use the box. Right. So it's like having an IKEA shelf that shows up. But the packaging is also part of the design. Yeah, so now to move towards the more traditional what people see in their mind, shipping container house, that's what you are working on.

Barna: [00:21:12] And that's what I'm working on. So just take a shipping container, cut holes for windows and doors. Actually, a lot of the structure is just because that container is solid. So the strength is basically on the pillars of that container basically I-beams or C channel on the bottom. So when you start cutting into it, you lose some of that structure. So what we're doing, there's a local welder. I did a lot of the the window frames. Now there are multiple methods out there. So if you go on YouTube or wherever, there are multiple methods kind of picked one did a couple of tests. We'll do a couple tests at my house, picked one went with that just two inch tube steel welded in, tricky part when it goes in from the inside because it's amazing you already have the siding on there. So it's just a different way to to think about it.

Wyatt: [00:22:09] Yeah. And that's a just a standard remodel window that that doesn't have a flange on it in some instances. I know yours do, but they have remodel windows that fit existing openings. You're going to save some money. Here's a pro tip by the windows first, then build and cut the frames and then cut the holes.

Barna: [00:22:24] And that's what I did.

Barna: [00:22:25] So I found I went you Habitat and we'll have a link too. Maybe we can find a nationwide listing for Habitat for Humanity, go there every day, pick up a window for 25 bucks instead of one hundred fifty,

Wyatt: [00:22:39] 20 cents on the dollar.

Barna: [00:22:41] There are people that buy like second or returns or whatever from Lowe's and Home Depot. You can find those guys too.

Wyatt: [00:22:47] They didn't fit the mansion down the street because somebody ordered it the wrong size by a quarter of an inch. And so and that person doesn't care about two grand being lost.

Barna: [00:22:53] Go pick that up. Pick that up design your house around that, not the other way around. Save yourself money wherever you can because everything's expensive.

Wyatt: [00:23:05] Fuck. And it keeps going up like crazy. And that's the thing, right. So so with building expenses, materials, raw materials, going up, my argument is you don't sacrifice wages there. You still have to make money so you can survive if you're the builder. Right. So that structure has to shrink, otherwise you're you're literally downgrading the cost of your labor to the point to where now all of a sudden nobody can afford.

Barna: [00:23:30] So what's the easiest thing you can cut out of your house when times get tough is dead air? Right. And that's what we're doing.

Wyatt: [00:23:37] Yeah. No, take away that bullshit that you're heating and cooling. Right. And those spare rooms that you're just cleaning and sitting in for 15 minutes a month.

Barna: [00:23:44] I was just going to tell you that story. A friend of mine back in high school went to their house one time and only this room, because you can see the vacuum like herringbone vacuum pattern. I'm like, what's this room? Oh, it's just the room we clean. Like, that's it. That's not a sitting room and not a living room. It's a room you clean and furnished.

Wyatt: [00:24:10] It's a waste of money. Right. But you can Google home use heat map. Right. And you can see the rooms that are actually being used. You know, it gets used kitchens because you got to cook a little bit. Dining rooms are definitely not getting used. Living rooms are the new dining rooms. So you might want to go that direction. And guess what? You got to sleep somewhere. So let's pretend like you do that in the bedroom, right. So you can do away with a lot of this square footage because you want it more than you need it. But you know what you need. To afford to be able to live inside your house, so you're going to have to trim some fat and you can add it on later, you know, when let's say the economy turns around or you get the big job or you find clear your debt because your eighty thousand dollar bachelor's degree is finally in your rearview and you're 48. Not a joke, then bolt some shit onto your house or whatever. And that's the design that we're talking about. Yeah.

Barna: [00:25:01] And the core idea of using a shipping container, as I was talking to somebody about how about housing. And it's like, what if I told you that I can give you a floor, structure, all four walls, a door, a roof. It's watertight. Lightning proof

Wyatt: [00:25:19] Right?

Barna: [00:25:20] Fireproof, flood proof, well with the foundations we did basically flood proof, like it's not going to it's already water tight right. It'll float away before it'll it'll sink.

Wyatt: [00:25:30] For us to float away. What that would take is that I mean, everybody else has got such we got bigger problems.

Barna: [00:25:38] But the point is that you get all you get all those things for three to five grand.

Barna: [00:25:44] Like, have a contractor ask them, hey, I need a wall, four walls, a roof, a floor. Yeah, give me some bamboo flooring or whatever, you know, plywood, just plywood floors. Give me that.

Wyatt: [00:25:58] That building is 12 grand.

Barna: [00:25:59] Three hundred and 20 square feet. And some, you know, make sure it's watertight, you know, fireproof and whatever else.

Wyatt: [00:26:05] Get you a garage door and they're big enough for you to wheel your shit in, like the doors on one of these is. A garage doors a lot more expensive because and so is the opening because, you know, you got to frame it and carry the load. Yeah. Yeah. So the answer is, and why recycle shipping containers? Because they are irreplicable for dollar amount per square foot of this space.

Barna: [00:26:24] I got the word right. You have the word right.

Wyatt: [00:26:26] I was struggling earlier. I read it. I said it slowly before in my head. You can't replicate that building for that cost. For that quality. Today, not even not even close, not even by double.

Barna: [00:26:38] And just another thing with labor and everything else, you also can't have that dropped off.

Wyatt: [00:26:42] No.

Barna: [00:26:42] Tomorrow.

Wyatt: [00:26:44] You cant wheel that sucker in on a truck. Yeah, if we called, if we called the dude that we got ours from I mean, this guy doesn't care, but he showed up on Easter, had his his significant other in the passenger seat on Easter later in the day, drops a container right.

Barna: [00:27:00] Perfectly where it needs to go to like it was. Yeah. Yeah. Easter Sunday.

Wyatt: [00:27:05] I have given his I recommended him so many people and one guy was like, dude, I've recommended that guy because he showed up. Homeboy can drive. So you got to find you a guy that can.

Barna: [00:27:14] Hop the curb squeezed between a couple other containers and get it straight.

Wyatt: [00:27:16] He did another one in the dark and I was like this guy is so nuts. I love it. But the point of what we were talking about is not only are you recycling something that's strong enough to go across the ocean.

Barna: [00:27:28] 40, 50 times, salt water, whatever.

Wyatt: [00:27:31] Salt water guy's like.

Barna: [00:27:32] Under a stack of seven others. Yeah.

Wyatt: [00:27:34] To think that you can actually have access to that, you should be doing backflips. Now, take the back flip version and add a twist because it's less expensive than it takes for somebody who can build it. That's why we said what we said, and that's my that's my sign on sign off, like this is all real shit, real deal stuff. And, you know, he'll do the thing like we always do.

Barna: [00:27:57] Follow us, like us, share, subscribe. Follow us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook or wherever you consume your podcasts.

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